Problem Transaction with Lithis - RESOLVED MEMBER BANNED

[Distractus]

The Paypal claim status updated to them requesting information from the seller.
I called to ask them that and update them on a bit of the situation.

They said they notified the seller, Lithis, that the package is out for delivery and that she needs to go get it.

I informed them of the following:
-She seems reluctant to make an effort to pick up the package from her old address judging by the conversations we're having.
-A DoA member from Italy came forward today to help me with Italian translation and she believes that Lithis is just using a English translator without checking the results. (This member offered to translate the facts of the case for me and I will update when that is ready, along with the English counterpart.)
-Her two addresses are only about 10 minutes from each other according to Google Maps.

The Paypal agent assured me that I will still get my refund if she does not pick up the package from her old address and even if it ends up being sent back to me. The agent said that the case data shows that they tried to resolve the address issue without any response from her. They also assured me that I have done everything correctly regarding the case and it's possible that this whole mess will be done with by the end of the week.

As for the package, it's status is 'out for delivery' for the 2nd time. I'm unsure how many attempts it will make? I believe it's 3 attempts for a US package here, however unsure for Italian post.
I've seen a stamp on packages I've received that read "1st attempt: date, 2nd attempt: date, Final attempt: date".

[Distractus]

I received the translated facts from the kind DoA member mentioned before.

Here is the English version:

Paypal ruled in my favor, you lost the claim case Lithis.
Since I won the claim case, I had to listen to where Paypal was telling me to send the package in order to get my refund.
You have no power at all to give me a refund, Paypal is forcing the refund since they ruled against you.
So to get my refund, Paypal told me to ship to your old address since you had not updated it.
Paypal ordered me to ship the package to the address they had on file, which you said is your old address.
I set it up so that you could change your address, I called Paypal several times to see if you had contacted them, they said you had not.
How did you contact Paypal? It must have been the incorrect way. Their system would have had your new address in it if you contacted them correctly.
If you do not get your package from the old address, you are willingly giving it up.
Your old address is not that far from your new one.
If you don't go get it, I will have the refund and likely the head as well.
Then that will be the end.

And here's her Italian translation:

Paypal ha già risolto il reclamo in mio favore e tu hai perso, Lithis
Siccome ho vinto il reclamo, ho dovuto seguire le indicazioni di Paypal su dove rispedire indietro il pacco per poi ottenere il rimborso
Tu non hai più alcun potere di darmi un rimborso, Paypal ti costringerà perchè ha deciso di agire contro di te in mio favore
Così, per ottenere il rimborso, Paypal mi ha chiesto di rispedire la testa al tuo vecchio indirizzo, siccome non l'hai aggiornato.
Paypal mi ha ordinato di spedire il pacco all'indirizzo che loro avevano registrato, che tu hai detto essere il tuo vecchio indirizzo.
Io mi sono attivata e ti ho avvertito di aggiornare il tuo indirizzo, ho telefonato a Paypal numerose volte per sapere se li avevi contattati e mi hanno sempre detto che non lo avevi fatto.
Come hai contattato Paypal? Probabilmente l'hai fatto in maniera sbagliata. Il loro sistema informatico avrebbe registrato il nuovo indirizzo se li avessi contattati nella maniera corretta
Se non vai a prendere il pacco al tuo vecchio indirizzo, è come se tu rinunciassi di proposito.
Il tuo vecchio indirizzo non è così distante da quello nuovo.
Se non andrai a prendere il pacchetto, io avrò comunque il rimborso, e la testa tornerà al mittente.
E questa storia finirà.

I will be PMing both the English and the Italian facts to Lithis.

The Italian DoA member also told me that they are able to call the delivery company to redirect the package or have it held at the office for pick up. I will also tell Lithis this.

According to the Italy tracking site, the package was unable to be delivered for a 2nd time. USPS has not yet been updated with that info, it will likely show this later tonight.

[Distractus]

I received a reply from Lithis, but in Italian..
I have attempted a translation via Google Translate. I would appreciate someone letting me know if the translation is radically different than what Google is giving me.

I had sent Lithis the translated and English message posted earlier in this thread.

dato che usi il translator allora posso scrivere in italiano dato che non ho nemmono più voglia di sforzarmi a comunicare nella tua lingua...
tu non hai vinto nulla fino a che la contestazione non è chiusa.... sei un illusa se pensi il contrario se fosse così avresti già il tuo rimborso...
ho contattoto paypall mandando le mail che ci siamo scambiate e ha detto che dovevi assolutamente spedirmelo al nuovo indirizzo.
non posso accedere al vecchio perchè non ho più ne chiavi ne casella postale quindi il pacco tornarà indietro...
il problema sarà postale non mio e quindi dovrai rispedirmelo io non rinuncio proprio a nulla non è mica colpa mia se le poste non me l'hanno consegnato...
quindi o me lo rimandi o mi rinunci al rimborso questo è chiaro....
comunque non capisco davvero perchè continui a rompermi con questa storia ti sei affidata a paypall no?
e allora aspettiamo il suo riscontro...
non capisco perchè continui a scrivermi ma non hai qualche altra cosa da fare???
amici?
fidanzato?
famiglia?
un animale domestico?
un lavoro?
se no procurateli perchè eviteresti di far perdere tempo alla gente che invece ha tutte queste cose.
d'ora in poi non ti risponderò più non abbiamo più nulla da dirci aspetterò il riscontro di paypall e basta.
e ti prego di non contattarmi più il tutto mi sta mandando all'esasperazione!!!

My reply:

I do not understand Italian. Please use English as per the rules of this forum.

I only sent you a translated Italian message due to your inability to understand your position in English.
Another DoA member translated it for me.

Google Translate of her message:

since then I can use the translator to write in Italian because I did not want to force myself nemmono more to communicate in your language ... you have not won anything until the dispute is not closed .... you are a deluded if you think otherwise you would already be so if your refund ... I contattoto paypall sending the emails we exchanged and said that you had absolutely spedirmelo to the new address. I can not access the old because I have more I will post box keys and then the package tornarà back ... the problem is not my post and then you will have to return the records I do not give up just about anything it's not my fault if I did not have items delivered ... so either me or my references to waive repayment that is clear .... but not really understand why you keep breaking my story with you entrusted to paypall no? and then wait for his response ... I do not understand why you keep on writing but do not have anything else to do?? friends? boyfriend? family? a pet? a job? if not, why procurateli eviteresti to waste people's time instead has all these things. from now on will not answer more than we have nothing to say to wait for the finding of just paypall. and please do not contact me is sending me all the more exasperating!

I had gotten an email from Paypal clearly stating that they had ruled the claim to be in my favor.
This means I have won the case Lithis. Paypal is only waiting for the shipping to be completed.
I will be ignoring future received messages from her in Italian. DoA is an English-only forum. Translating the facts to Italian seemed to be the only way to communicate the case facts with Lithis.
Rules can be viewed here: http://www.denofangels.com/forums/content.php?165
It clearly states English-only.

This is the last time I will be trying to explain the situation to Lithis. I have attempted several times, none of which seemed to have worked. I will not ignore PMs from her unless it's in Italian. I will respond to any questions she sends, however, I'm done trying to explain her position to her.

I also do not see why my personal life is in question and personally do not see it as any of your business. I specifically make time several times in my day to communicate on DoA due to ongoing transactions and other responsibilities. My schooling and career choice allows for me to do so. It is now Summer vacation, still in college, my parents are divorcing this very month, friends are away at different colleges, I see my boyfriend every other day, etc. I take my part in the BJD community as important as anything else I do with my time.
Not everyone has the luxury to put as much time into the hobby as I do, but I don't see why a problem transaction such as this would not warrant the important attention it deserves.

The way I see it, I put as much time into transactions and issues on the forum as I would want the other person to do so.

My requirements for resolution still stand.

[Distractus]

Lithis responded with:

use google translater for translate my message^^

My response:

I did before you replied.
From now on, please sent messages in English.

It is against the forum rules to not use English.
Thank you.

I find it rude that she did not translate her previous message for me.
From not doing so, I am now assuming that the Google Translation is accurate, even though some Italian words did not translate. They must have spelling errors.

I apologize for the small update, but I feel it to be important to document everything for future transactions.
I also missed my own spelling error in my sent message. Instead of 'sent' it should be 'send'.

[Distractus]

Another response from Lithis:

is a private message.. the rules is only for the forum not the private message.... learn to read please... is your languages and you not understand O___O!!!!!
this is the translatio whit google translation..... is soo difficul to use this program to you O___O
since then I can use the translator to write in Italian because I did not want to force myself no more to communicate in your language ... you have not won anything until the dispute is not closed .... you are a deluded if you think otherwise you would already be so if your refund ... I contact paypall sending the emails we exchanged and said that you had absolutely ship to the new address. I can not access the old because I have more I will post box keys and then the package tornarà back ... the problem is not my post and then you will have to return the records I do not give up just about anything it's not my fault if I did not have items delivered ... so either me or my references to waive repayment that is clear .... but not really understand why you keep breaking my story with you entrusted to paypall no? and then wait for his response ... I do not understand why you keep on writing but do not have anything else to do?? friends? boyfriend? family? a pet? a job? if not, why procurateli eviteresti to waste people's time instead has all these things. from now on will not answer more than we have nothing to say to wait for the finding of just paypall. and please do not contact me is sending me all the more exasperating!Annulla modifiche

Looks to be the same message generated from Google Translate.

Mods or other members, I would like to know, was I wrong to assume that the English-only rule applied to just public forum posts?
Either way, Lithis knows I do not speak Italian and that online translators fail much of the time to translate accurately. I just find it rude to receive messages in a different language and be expected to pop it into an online translator.

I personally don't feel like I need to deal with the added stress of having to translate Lithis's messages when she has done not nearly what I have to resolve the situation. I do not appreciate your insults Lithis.

Regarding the package and the claim.
USPS's website now shows that it attempted delivery for a 2nd time and will try again tomorrow.
Paypal is waiting for Lithis to contact them regarding delivery.
I believe she has until Jun. 6th to contact them as this is the message I see on the claims page "We'll contact you with any developments or if we require additional information from you by Jun 6, 2012." During the whole case, that sort of message has always been present with different dates. Those dates seem to be deadlines for new information.
I believe this will likely be half resolved by the end of the week, as that is when the last agent I spoke with estimated my refund to be ready.
I would still require the head to either be delivered there or back here to count this whole transaction as resolved.

[Distractus]

The Italian tracking site had updated again that it had missed delivery.

I called and asked Paypal what the next step would be.
The agent put me on hold for a while, examined all evidence, tracking number, and proof of postage images.

He moved the case to close and refunded my money.

Dear Jordin Littmann,

We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your
favor.

We were able to recover 75.00 EUR and this amount has been credited to you.
Please allow five business days for this adjustment to be posted.

If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to
recover the balance from the seller.


If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed
to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the
seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account
privileges.

I have received the full amount that I had originally sent.
The monetary resolution requirement has been fulfilled.

I still require the package to stop moving to consider this fully resolved.
As said above, the package attempted a 3rd delivery, however it does not say it will try again.
It does not say it's on it's way back either.
It is unclear how many more attempts it will make.
I will update the package status when appropriate.

I am now going to PM Lithis this information.

[Distractus]

This is the PM I have sent to Lithis:

Hello

Just letting you know that Paypal ruled in my favor and closed the case.
I have my refund.

The package attempted a 3rd delivery today.
I think you will have to call your post office to get it.

I do not know how many more times it will attempt delivery.
Please call them if you want your package, otherwise it will be sent back to me.

Thank you.

At this point I think this is the only way for her to get the head. She should really call her post office/delivery service about picking it up.
Otherwise it will be sent back to me.
She could have made arrangements with the current residents of the old address to obtain the package.

I can only see this as her willingly giving it up if she is not making the effort that is required to get her head back.

I still require the head to arrive at a final destination for this transaction to be fully resolved.
To Lithis or back to myself.

[Distractus]

According to the Italian tracking site, the package attempted delivery for a 4th time. No other notice along with the attempted delivery message.

I called USPS to see if they would know how many delivery attempts the package would make, the guy said he had no clue.
USPS customer service is certainly not as helpful as Paypal's customer service..
Perhaps I can call Poste Italiane? I have found a number on their site, but does anyone know if they would be able to speak English?
It would be in both of our best interests to know how many more attempts the package will make.

Though, right now, the package is still in Milan. Lithis needs to call her post/delivery office to see if she can get the package.
I have no idea when the package will leave and head back here, it could be very suddenly.

There has been many opportunities to arrange to pick up the package with quite a bit of ahead notice that such effort would be required to obtain it.

I will assume Lithis is giving it up if she does not make the effort that is required to get the package. Paypal has told me that it would be my property if it ends up coming back here and I would be free to do with it as I wish if so.


As of now, there has been no reply from Lithis nor has she been online since yesterday.
I did notice that her profile is now empty of all info about her that had been there before, such as doll family, etc.
I believe it would be accurate to assume she is leaving the forum because of that? Judging from all of the recent events, I believe that would be an acceptable conclusion and not that she's revamping her info.
I apologize if I'm incorrect on this matter, but I'm taking note of all changes that occur.

[Distractus]

Another Italian DoA member kindly informed me that packages usually attempt delivery 3 times in Italy and then can take a couple weeks to get back to the sender.

Today was the 4th attempt to deliver the head. There is no further information available currently concerning the package. I do not know if it's going to attempt again tomorrow or if it's being sorted to go back as I type.

Again, Lithis, I urge you to contact your post/delivery office in order to get your package.
Time is running out.

I have received no replies to my messages at this time.

[Distractus]

I felt this was appropriate information to update, though it is a minor update.

The Paypal case comments show that Lithis called Paypal for the first time today (June 7th). It does not say a time. She had logged into DoA once so far today. I am assuming she called Paypal after seeing the PM I sent her that said I won the case and received my refund.

I do find it odd that the case comments do not include every call I made to Paypal, but it is still evident in my phone records.

I have not gotten any messages from Lithis.

I am getting nervous concerning the window of opportunity for her to get her package is closing.
It is a time sensitive matter, so I feel the need to keep updating with anything minor concerning it.
She really needs to contact her post/delivery office about getting it. I have not heard from her if she is attempting to do so.

If it does start making it's way back here, I will only post to update when it's in customs and then arrives to my home.

[Distractus]

The Italian tracking site now says that the delivery is shipping? (according to google translation of individual words in the sentence rather than the whole sentence at one time. I find I'm getting a more understandable result when breaking it apart.)
It has said that before when attempting delivery, although the past few times it has not said that.

I do not know which direction the package is going at this time.

I have not received any messages from Lithis as of yet.

Out of curiosity, I checked the case again on Paypal, it says today an email has been sent to Paypal now in the case history.
It was not I that sent an email, so I can only assume that Lithis is trying to contact them for more information or to attempt to reverse their decision. I came to the second possible conclusion solely based on her behavior through this whole ordeal.

[Distractus]

Just a tiny update that as I was typing the last post, the status of the package now says that it attempted delivery again and failed.

This is the 6th attempted delivery according to the Italian tracking site.

I would like to contact the Poste Italiane office regarding this, but I'm unsure if they have an English speaker nor do I know how to dial their phone number on their website.
I will do some research to try and figure it out, but if anyone knows already, please inform me!

The USPS tracking shows that it attempted delivery only twice, so it's not much help at the moment.

[Distractus]

The Italian tracking site says it has attempted and failed delivery 7 times now.
An Italian DoA member told me that the entries could be mirrored or repeated at times. I see how that could happen, however, all of the entries are separate dates and times.
I decided that I will not be trying to call Poste Italiane due to how much it will cost on my phone bill and that I've been told they don't have an English speaker readily available.

The USPS tracking updated to say that it has failed delivery for the 3rd time yesterday (6/8).

The Italian member helping me also said that the package might be stuck with customs fees and that could be why it's virtually stopped moving.

I have not received any messages from Lithis, nor has there been any updates on the Paypal case history.
She has not been online since 6/7, 2:19pm, likely not since she read my PM containing the case results.
Her profile is also empty, it once had her details and a huge list of dolls she owned.

As of right now, I do not know what to do regarding the package unless the tracking starts indicating it's heading back here.
I do not know if Lithis has contacted her post/delivery office or is even attempting to obtain the package.

My thoughts, if she does not sign in for a few days, I will be assuming she's left DoA and probably not coming back. Her activity and profile lead me to think this. I believe this to be a reasonable conclusion given the facts.

If this is indeed the case, I will no longer be updating this thread about the package(aside from when it is finally delivered) as my patience for this person is wearing extremely thin. She does not seem to care about it, is not keeping me informed about her efforts, nor does she seem to appreciate my efforts in getting the package back to her.

I will update again in a few days about keeping the thread open or locking it, OR, when the package makes a significant tracking update within that time.
If I request the thread locked, I will PM a mod to allow me to update it when the package is finally delivered.

Thank you everyone that has PM'd me for your kind words and assistance.

[Distractus]

Lithis has signed in again, leading me to now believe that she is interested in checking something on the forum.

However, she has not contacted/responded to my PMs about calling her post/delivery office.
I am still not aware of any attempts she has or is making to get the package.

The package tracking has not updated as it is Sunday.

I request that this thread remain open due to her recent log in activity, however, you don't need to be signed in to see this thread and that I'm frustrated by the lack of communication.

I have not heard from Lithis since before her reading my PM stating that I had won the Paypal case and received my refund.
If she is ignoring me because of that, then I find that to be very immature.

If she does not want my assistance to get her head back, then all she has to do is say so, then I can stop wasting my time.

I've put so much time into this because I would want someone to do the same for me. Although, this lack of response just makes me feel like I'm wasting my time for someone that doesn't appreciate it what-so-ever.

[Distractus]

Still no response from Lithis.

The Italian tracking site says it missed delivery again, the 8th time.
No update on the USPS site.

Nothing new on the Paypal case history, not that I expected anything to happen on there anyways.

Lithis, if you don't want my help getting your head back, let me know.

[Distractus]

I have messaged the Mods about closing the thread for now.

Lithis is ignoring me or has lost interest after the case didn't go her way.

I've decided not to care anymore. If the head comes back to me, it's going up for sale as I will not want it.
I will update the thread when the head reaches it's final destination, where ever that may be.

I consider this issue resolved as I got my refund.

[Distractus]

Since this thread is not closed yet, I will update that the Italian site shows quite a bit of movement.
From the most recent update, I cannot determine if this means it's heading back or not.
It appears as though it did in fact have customs fees on it and they were not paid?
If anyone has a better interpretation of it, please let me know.

Here's Google Translate's interpretation of all tracking info to date:

EI102932753US
Date Time Location Tracking information
14/06/2012 18:54 NON-PAYMENT - DELIVERY IN A POST OFFICE Milan 2
14/06/2012 08:14 SHIPMENT AND THE 'OVER Milan 2
13/06/2012 20:35 SHIPMENT WILL 'DELIVERED AT THE' SOON Milan 2
13/06/2012 20:35 SHIPMENT AND 'THE ROAD Milan 2
13/06/2012 06:57 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
12/06/2012 10:27 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
06/11/2012 06:08 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
09/06/2012 06:01 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
08/06/2012 15:42 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
08/06/2012 08:47 SHIPMENT AND THE 'OVER Milan 2
08/06/2012 05:02 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
06/07/2012 04:30 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
06/06/2012 09:57 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
06/05/2012 17:56 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
06/05/2012 08:47 SHIPMENT AND THE 'OVER Milan 2
06/04/2012 17:25 RECIPIENT ABSENT Milan 2
06/04/2012 08:30 SHIPMENT AND THE 'OVER Milan 2
06/01/2012 18:26 SHIPMENT AND 'THE ROAD Milano Espresso Hub
06/01/2012 18:26 SHIPMENT AND THE 'GAME Milano Espresso Hub
05/30/2012 17:02 803,160 CONTACT Milan Gateway Italian Post
05/30/2012 17:01 ENTRY TO POST GATEWAY Gateway Milan Italian Post

I am still waiting for USPS's website to update. It only shows the missed delivery notices.

I have not heard anything from Lithis still.

I would also like to note here that I will be gone for approx. a month in Spain for an internship starting at the end of June. Limited internet access. If the package heads back to the US during the time I am gone, I will likely not know nor will I be able to update this thread with that information in a timely manner. I anticipate that I will have internet access, but I cannot say for sure.

[Distractus]

USPS has updated.

It now says: "Payment of charges - Item being held, addressee being notified"

So yes, it has customs fees on it.

Does anyone know what will happen if she does not pay the fees on it/pick it up?
Will it head back here after a length of time or stay there forever?

I will attempt to PM Lithis again about this.

[Distractus]

According to the tracking for both sites, the package has been delivered.

I have not heard anything from Lithis and she was last online the 13th.

I consider this to be completely resolved now.

Lithis denied any responsibility throughout this entire transaction and disappeared right after Paypal's ruling.
She stopped responding to my PM's and has now seemed to have stopped logging in.
She also did not appear to understand the facts of the case and that Paypal decided against her early on.

This sort of attitude that Lithis presented is unacceptable for Den of Angels transactions and future dealings.