Buying/Selling/Trading Outside of the Marketplace NOW Will Result in an MP Suspension

[Jescissa]

Thank you for the clarification, Jescissa! The reason I asked is because I've seen mods give gentle reminders before implementing the old "3 strikes" rule. For example, mods have reminded people not to post "looking for X parts" in Waiting Room threads. With this new punishment it seems like the gentle reminders will disappear.

Ostrich, you're welcome The reason the rule is being enforced differently is because some members have either read the reminders as suggestions or have been ignoring gentle reminders completely. We're encouraging members to report posts that they see breaking the rules and the moderators will follow them up with appropriate consequences. If someone starting a waiting room thread would like to put a reminder in very first post that discussing sales outside of the Marketplace is against the rules, that would be fine, but moderators will be taking action rather than issuing reminders about a rule everyone is capable of looking up for themselves

[X J@d3 X]

Just for clarification - is there a specific area of the forum where you can ask for advice on pricing etc.? I am getting a sewing machine for Christmas and will probably be using it a lot, but I have never sold doll clothes before and wouldn't really know where to start

[Zagzagael]

Just for clarification - is there a specific area of the forum where you can ask for advice on pricing etc.? I am getting a sewing machine for Christmas and will probably be using it a lot, but I have never sold doll clothes before and wouldn't really know where to start

There is not. This is disallowed. Please feel that you can begin a Commissionable Thread or finish up some pieces and offer them in the Clothing MP.

[X J@d3 X]

There is not. This is disallowed. Please feel that you can begin a Commissionable Thread or finish up some pieces and offer them in the Clothing MP.

OK, thanks

[Allison Wonder]

i don't think it is so hard to understand.
imagine DoA as a house with different rooms. each subforum is a room.
there is one room called "the market place", imagine it like a market with stalls, that is where you can sell things and buy things.
you are not allowed to go screaming around (like the shouting sales people) in the rest of the house about stuff you are selling or want to buy, and you are not allowed to stick posters with sale information all over the place.

you are in the house of DoA, use the rooms as they were intended, if what you want to do is buying/selling, go to the market place room.

This is the most simple and clear message I have read so far, except for the posts made by the Mods.
Thank you!
I also want to Thank the Mods for all the work they do!

[Giodrakes]

If you have a link to Etsy in your sig or in your profile and it is found that you are using the EXACT same pictures to sell there and post Gallery threads here, you will probably receive a pm from a moderator.

Oh. A mod said early in the thread (I think?) that the monitoring would happen within the DoA forums, not off-site. Now if we have pictures of the same items off-site that will also be reason for banning/warning?
What if it is different pictures of the same item?
I'm so sorry, but since you guys posted this thread I didn't realize I had been cross-posting. Now I know now to do it. And I'm not making excuses for myself, but honestly, English is not my first language and as knowledgeable as I can be sometimes, there are some things I don't get right away

I love the community aspect more than having stuff for sale in the marketplace, so I took my pictures off there so I don't have to worry about whether I can use them in the discussions or not. I hope that's ok.

I also know you guys are busy, and I hate having to 'babysit' so I can't see that you like it much, specially when you have to warn people and all that, but believe me, me bugging you stresses me out more than it stresses you. I hate causing trouble for others, no matter who they are or if I know them or not, so please forgive my asking. It really is not my intention to bother, offend, etc ANYONE. Sorry.

[Zagzagael]

Oh. A mod said early in the thread (I think?) that the monitoring would happen within the DoA forums, not off-site. Now if we have pictures of the same items off-site that will also be reason for banning/warning?
What if it is different pictures of the same item?

No reason to be so sorry. The most amazing thing I've gleaned from this thread is how very little our Rules are actually being read and understood by the membership.

As to your question - here's a rule from the Critique rules that sums this issue up -

3. You are NOT allowed to ask if members would purchase or commission, ask for pricing help, or crosspost to websites or blogs or Marketplace threads in which items or services are being offered. You may not discuss future offers of commissions or opening up commission shops.

So, if you put up a Critique thread with pictures of your crazycool Princess crowns made out of felt and then in your sig, bold and linked, is your Etsy shop titled "CoolCrazy Felt Princess Crowns" - that is crossposting.

[Giodrakes]

No reason to be so sorry. The most amazing thing I've gleaned from this thread is how very little our Rules are actually being read and understood by the membership.

As to your question - here's a rule from the Critique rules that sums this issue up -



So, if you put up a Critique thread with pictures of your crazycool Princess crowns made out of felt and then in your sig, bold and linked, is your Etsy shop titled "CoolCrazy Felt Princess Crowns" - that is crossposting.

Ooooh ok. Thank you!!!
And thanks for being so understanding. I honestly did read the rules when I first came in here, but I guess I have to study them further just in case, and make sure I ask for clarification when I'm not sure of a term used. That is my fault for not asking.
I try to be "proper" and polite and to not cause trouble.
I'm going to go read the rules one more time, and just PM one of you guys if there is anything I need to get clarified, just in case.

Thanks again, I truly appreciate your patience, and you taking the time

[aikohaku]

So, if you put up a Critique thread with pictures of your crazycool Princess crowns made out of felt and then in your sig, bold and linked, is your Etsy shop titled "CoolCrazy Felt Princess Crowns" - that is crossposting.

So... given that I use different pictures all around and none of the images posted are repeated, does that mean that posting a work I have completed as a commission into the critique thread (for the purposes of receiving critique and bettering myself via constructive criticism) would be considered cross-posting because I have a link to my shop in my signature?

[xyzKitty]

according to what the mods have said in previous posts, I think you would be ok to post your work in a critique thread if: it was a completed commission; you don't specifically state that this mod is available as a commission from you (that is, don't advertise); and you don't ask for pricing or commercial viability (like "would you buy/commission this mod?").

According to the rules in the first post, linking to one's sale/commission threads in the signature is considered ok.
Mods, please correct me if I'm wrong!

[genie stallings]

No reason to be so sorry. The most amazing thing I've gleaned from this thread is how very little our Rules are actually being read and understood by the membership.

As to your question - here's a rule from the Critique rules that sums this issue up -



So, if you put up a Critique thread with pictures of your crazycool Princess crowns made out of felt and then in your sig, bold and linked, is your Etsy shop titled "CoolCrazy Felt Princess Crowns" - that is crossposting.

Ok, I have a tutorial for making Puki shoes http://www.denofangels.com/forums/sh...LOTS-of-images! I have also shared patterns for Puki dresses. DOA members have shared images showing items they have made from my patterns and commented how helpful my information has been. Off and on I will have a sales thread of Puki shoes and dresses for sale and when I do, I normally put the link in my signature "bold and linked". My shoes for sale are absolutely identical in every way to the ones in my tutorial; every single dress my Pukis wear in pictures I've posted are made by me and are the exact same styles I make for sale. So, if I happen to be running a Puki sales thread, every single Puki image I have ever posted, past, present and future, becomes a cross-posting; my shoe tutorial turns into a cross-posting (similar to your "CoolCrazy" example); my shared patterns all become cross-postings.

This cross-posting rule seems particularly punitive to skilled artisans and craftspeople because their pictures are ALWAYS going to include items they make. This rule means they cannot share their pleasure in creating items for their dolls because they also make those items for sale. Kinda makes a craftsperson feel like a second-class citizen who is not allowed to participate in the Community

[Smaug]

Ok, I have a tutorial for making Puki shoes http://www.denofangels.com/forums/sh...LOTS-of-images! I have also shared patterns for Puki dresses. DOA members have shared images showing items they have made from my patterns and commented how helpful my information has been. Off and on I will have a sales thread of Puki shoes and dresses for sale and when I do, I normally put the link in my signature "bold and linked". My shoes for sale are absolutely identical in every way to the ones in my tutorial; every single dress my Pukis wear in pictures I've posted are made by me and are the exact same styles I make for sale. So, if I happen to be running a Puki sales thread, every single Puki image I have ever posted, past, present and future, becomes a cross-posting; my shoe tutorial turns into a cross-posting (similar to your "CoolCrazy" example); my shared patterns all become cross-postings.

This cross-posting rule seems particularly punitive to skilled artisans and craftspeople because their pictures are ALWAYS going to include items they make. This rule means they cannot share their pleasure in creating items for their dolls because they also make those items for sale. Kinda makes a craftsperson feel like a second-class citizen who is not allowed to participate in the Community

It's been already said that if you have a tutorial/gallery/etc post up for ages and then you decide that you don't want that particular item, or you decide to sell a few things you made the same way as that tutorial it's not a problem, since you are not posting your not-on-marketplace pictures at the same time (or suspiciously close in time) with the sole intention of advertising.

I just can't see what you find in these rules so penalizing, when it's been repeatedly stated that it's not the case and the mods won't go on a suspending-frenzy without reason. Almost every commissionable artist has things of their making on the forums while selling other products.

But if I'm already writing....there is something I always wondered about:

Sometimes people ask about items (mostly in the Buying/Shipping Q&A) and where they can find something like that. Naturally others answer with links to companies, etsy shops etc. and I know that's perfectly okay. But every once in a while someone would describe an item that some commissionable services offer in the Marketplace. I always wondered if we are allowed to let this person know that someone on the forum makes the item she's looking for. Like this:

"Does anyone know places selling big curly wigs in lime color, similar to the picture linked? I'd need one for my newest character *picture included of an 80's rock star*"

"What you describe sounds like tibetan fur wigs - tinybear makes them in tons of color variations."

I seem to encounter these situations especially with wigs...DoA's wigmakers sometimes just do so unique items that nothing similar can be bought from companies. But naming the wigmaker makes it possible to circumvent the Marketplace (more or less, since Buying/Shipping is already there, just visible to everyone). Or should I just say "there are wigmakers on the marketplace who make tibetan fur wigs, find one for yourself"? Or should I just stick with the company-links?

[Ostrich]

Smaug - I believe questions like those should be kept to the Buying/Shipping Q&A area. There's lots of threads were people are looking for X, and others have responded on where to buy X (outside and inside of DoA).

[Smaug]

Ostrich - Yes, I know that's the intended place for these questions - as I said it's the Buying/Shipping Q&A where I usually find threads like this. To clarify - that part is visible to everyone regardless of Marketplace Access. But if someone answers with a forum member's name, who has a commission thread, the one who asked the question can just go and contact that forum member without actually having access to the restricted part of the Marketplace. That - to me - feels like circumventing the Marketplace. But on the other side - yes, people do it, have always done it, and they are not advertising their own product, but giving information.

This is not like a huge problem for me - I just always wondered^^ I like doing research (hunting XD), and answering these questions so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask^^

[Zagzagael]

The crossposting part of the no buying/selling/trading rule seems to be causing the most confusion. There is no way for us to make this more clear - at the end of the day one must discern "intent". If you're intent to post a tutorial does not coincide with your intent to have members follow the link in your signature to your Etsy shop where you sell the items made from your tutorial you are a-okay. The mods are *gasp* human creatures just like the members and robotic implementing of the rules is not possible. Posts and threads are "considered".

***

It is against the rule to mention that there is a commissioner on the forum who serves a specific need. If you feel very strongly about that commissioner's service you could, perhaps, drop the member a pm - as long as it is NOT your service, your friend, or considered spammy. Most members will find the services/products they want and need as they spend more time on the board.

[Ostrich]

It is against the rule to mention that there is a commissioner on the forum who serves a specific need. If you feel very strongly about that commissioner's service you could, perhaps, drop the member a pm - as long as it is NOT your service, your friend, or considered spammy. Most members will find the services/products they want and need as they spend more time on the board.

This is a little worrisome. People who are blatantly violating this rule (spamming) will be easy to catch. However, as Smaug said most of these type of responses come from people who are just trying to help. In my case I want to "shortcut" combing through the Commission area by saying "Sally makes excellent shirts that fit your odd-sized doll [here]." I have no association with Sally.

I find these kind of comments particularly helpful in new doll discussion threads. Everybody sorta bands together to find wigs/eyes/clothing/whatever that will work. Mostly they reference existing companies. But I'm grateful for company and commission references. If I know Sally will make shirts that fit I could PM everybody from the thread who asks. But it would be more useful to post that info as a general reference. IE "Check out post #2. There's a list of people who make shirts that will fit."

Again, I completely understand what the mods are trying to do. And I applaud it! Keeping a tight leash on MP stuff must be tough. I'm just saying "name dropping" usually comes naturally from well-meaning people.

[armeleia]

I'm going to lock this thread for now.

Many questions have been asked and answered multiple times and we think this is becoming more complex than it needs to be. In addition, some tangential questions have been raised that we feel require some discussion. We will be removing all responses to this thread and posting a condensed FAQ to all of the questions so that the information is all clear and condensed.