Buying/Selling/Trading Outside of the Marketplace NOW Will Result in an MP Suspension

[DoA Mod Squad]

The Moderators and Virtues have recently realized that the bulk of our moderating time is spent dealing with members adverting sales or trying to arrange transactions outside of the Marketplaces.

This is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN and creates a huge waste of time for the Mod Team, preventing us from having the time to do useful things like add new features, help members with their problems, and work in subforums that need daily maintenance.

We are asking you to stop and moderate your own behavior. We are not changing the rule or creating any new rules, BUT WE ARE GOING TO BEGIN ENFORCING THE EXISTING RULE DIFFERENTLY. In the event that you break the no selling/buying/trading outside the Marketplaces rule the automatic consequence will be a one-month Marketplace Suspension.

What is considered buying/selling/trading outside of the Marketplace?
This includes publicly:

• asking if anyone is selling a specific item.
• mentioning that your item is for sale.
• mentioning that an item in a gallery or discussion photo is for sale.
• answering a "Where can I buy...?" question with your own sale.
• asking members to sell items that are not listed for sale.
• asking members to contact you if they decide to sell an item.
• responding to members with interest in regards to buying/trading.
• cross-posting images in the gallery and your sales thread at the same time.
• linking to off-forum webpages clearly associated with your own sale.
• soliciting commissions (even for free) outside of the Commissionable Services marketplace.
• asking members if you may commission them.

Please note this applies to public areas of the forum, not PMs.

What is not considered buying/selling/trading outside of the Marketplace?

• Signature links to marketplace threads or offsite sales.
• Discussion-relevant links to online shops that aren't associated with you.
• Mentioning in a meet-up thread that you will bring items for sale; do not list prices or brands.
• Mentioning that you will have a booth at an event; do not list prices or details.

You may not leave personal feedback on Den of Angels for items bought, sold or traded at a meet-up or event.


Why is this such a big deal?

DoA has strict rules about Marketplace use in order to protect our members. When members engage in transactions outside of the Marketplace, they are circumventing these rules and opening everyone up to risk. In addition, sales spam and advertisement can make other members uncomfortable or disrupt normal discussion or gallery browsing. We are aware that some people make money from DoA's advertising opportunities, but DoA is a community first and neither the forum nor its members exist solely for your profit.

If you have any questions about this, please PM a moderator or ask in this thread.

[HikaruMuraki]

Asking just in case, would mentioning something like these in meet-up threads count?

e.g. asking if people would be interested to trade or buy stuffs during the meet-up in the thread, so we wouldn't seem rude to suddenly turn up and "sell" dollie stuff to people like a salesperson...

[Ciantha]

I was wondering if it's ok to PM someone who doesn't have a marketplace thread.

Example: Member A posts pictures of her beautiful gowns in the Critique section, member B sees the pictures and wants a gown. Member B can't find a marketplace thread for member A. Is it then ok for member B to PM member A and ask if a comission would be possible? Technically speaking member B is in a way trying to buy outside of the marketplace but it's not like member B could start a WTB thread stating that she wants to buy a comission from member A.

Thankful for answers

[$abbatha]

Wondering if is allowed to ask in FS thread to take custom commissions as the seller claims that the stuff on sale in the thread are handmade by seller itsels,but this seller don't have any commission thread open in the correct subforum of MP.
Hope is clear.

[dragonesskirra]

Asking just in case, would mentioning something like these in meet-up threads count?

e.g. asking if people would be interested to trade or buy stuffs during the meet-up in the thread, so we wouldn't seem rude to suddenly turn up and "sell" dollie stuff to people like a salesperson...

I am wondering this as well. Also same for say Group orders, if I am having one and want my locale peeps to know about it, I have in the past let them know if they like anything they can join. Is that still ok? I dont think its nice to send people pm's about it everytime.

[TreeLore]

um.... What is someone has a wanted up for a doll in the market place. You do not have your doll up for sale yet in the for sale market place. I am guessing you CAN contact the person with the wanted to sell the doll to them? It would be a bit nuts if someone had a wanted for a foot part or a puki faceplate to have to list it for sale when you already have a buyer?

[Mitya]

In addition I am curious as to whether advertising your marketplace sales threads in your signature is acceptable. I noticed a few of us here are doing this. Is this a problem?

[TreeLore]

I was banned from the market place for one month due to mentioning in the volks dolpa thread that when my Lieselotte arrived I would be selling her outfit as I didn't like the style. Keep in mind I did not have a for sale in the market place - so I was not pimping my sale. Also there would be a two months wait for her to arrive.

I mention this as there are many in the soom threads that talk like this. I see it allot. It's casual refection of how you want to employ the doll buying.

** Mod Maybe you should add discussing splitting up a future doll set or parts - will also result in banning.

[Arella]

I have a question for cross-posting pictures on the MP and the Gallery - I sometimes take a batch of pictures of my dolls in dresses that I will be selling in the MP. Sometimes I use the same pictures for both forums, but I edit them for different purposes, such as enhancing colors and whatnot for the Gallery... so I'm guessing that this is alright, since they are not EXACTLY the same?

[Ice Mutt]

I'm also going to request clarification as to how it would work with meet-ups.
I know my group does our best to keep direct sales out of the thread, but we do have a lot of talk of stuff we plan to sell and talk of local group orders (usually accompanied then by random chime-ins of what we plan to buy). I realize the meet-up threads appear to be self-regulating, but I'd hate to see one of my local buddies (or myself) get ourselves a ban because we were talking like we normally do.

[Sianserais]

Answering a "Where can I buy...?" question by mentioning your own sale - on or off-site.

Er... but what if they're referring to an item you yourself made and happen to sell in the MP? What would you be allowed to say? "No Comment?"

Edit: And what about people commenting in the Waiting Rooms that they've purchased a doll, but are not planning to keep parts of it? Does that cross the line?

[weirdnessmagnet]

Seconding the request for clarification on meet-ups. Members of my local group often mention that they're bringing things to sell or trade at our monthly gathering, and I don't want to see anyone banned for our usual chitchat.

[Cherrily]

I guess I will have to be really careful what to say. I wouldn't even realise I was doing anything wrong in a third of the cases described. Oops.

[Ehryn]

I'm pretty sure one of our local meet-up members has been PMed by a moderator warning them for posting in a meet-up thread about selling items... Although we have since occasionally said "if any of you coming along have any ______ please bring them as I need some!" or "I'm bringing along a bag of stuff to sell if anyone's interested" and things like that so chucking in another vote for clarification

I think it's wonderful that this is being enforced more strictly, and don't really mind if I can't say things like that in Meet threads any more (since I talk to pretty much everyone off-site anyway so can always Facebook them or something instead) but it would be good to know

Thanks mods!

[du-hast]

Mentioning in a Gallery thread that an item is for sale or cross-posting images in the Gallery from your FS thread. i'm wondering about this point, does it mean that if you take some pictures of your doll in an outfit post it in the gallery you can't post some of those pictures in the for sale thread when you decide that you no longer want the outfit? that would be kinda unfortunate

[Tennyo]

I don't think that makes sense to not let people talk about stuff they are doing at the meetup in their threads. What should all meetups do now? Make a separate marketplace thread for JUST people going to their meetup, then try to keep track of and PM everyone who ever posts in the thread to make sure they all know about it? Is everyone at the meetup supposed to make their own thread for things they will bring to the meet?

I think this is something that needs to be fleshed out. I foresee making something harmless into something completely overly complicated.

[Zagzagael]

Asking just in case, would mentioning something like these in meet-up threads count?

e.g. asking if people would be interested to trade or buy stuffs during the meet-up in the thread, so we wouldn't seem rude to suddenly turn up and "sell" dollie stuff to people like a salesperson...

The moderators are currently discussing the best way to manage this rule in the Meet-up threads!

I was wondering if it's ok to PM someone who doesn't have a marketplace thread.

Example: Member A posts pictures of her beautiful gowns in the Critique section, member B sees the pictures and wants a gown. Member B can't find a marketplace thread for member A. Is it then ok for member B to PM member A and ask if a comission would be possible? Technically speaking member B is in a way trying to buy outside of the marketplace but it's not like member B could start a WTB thread stating that she wants to buy a comission from member A.

Thankful for answers

This would be fine as long as the member being pm-ed does not perceive your pm as offensive or spammy - be careful out there kids!

Wondering if is allowed to ask in FS thread to take custom commissions as the seller claims that the stuff on sale in the thread are handmade by seller itsels,but this seller don't have any commission thread open in the correct subforum of MP.
Hope is clear.

Discussing Marketplace issues in a Marketplace thread is fine. If a discussion is going to become a true back-and-forth dialogue it would be better conducted via pm.

I am wondering this as well. Also same for say Group orders, if I am having one and want my locale peeps to know about it, I have in the past let them know if they like anything they can join. Is that still ok? I dont think its nice to send people pm's about it everytime.

The moderators are currently discussing the best way to manage this rule in the Meet-up threads!

um.... What is someone has a wanted up for a doll in the market place. You do not have your doll up for sale yet in the for sale market place. I am guessing you CAN contact the person with the wanted to sell the doll to them? It would be a bit nuts if someone had a wanted for a foot part or a puki faceplate to have to list it for sale when you already have a buyer?

PM-ing members about legitimate Marketplace threads is fine.

In addition I am curious as to whether advertising your marketplace sales threads in your signature is acceptable. I noticed a few of us here are doing this. Is this a problem?

That is mentioned in the Announcement and there are no rules against using your Signature to link to your sale HOWEVER if a member is BOLDLY advertising a sale and is posting in all relevant discussion threads a moderator will most probably pm them. Example: if your sig reads that you are selling a SA Bermann and there is a link and you are posting "i no longer luv Bermanns" in all the Bermann threads....that would be pushing the boundaries of the allowance.

I was banned from the market place for one month due to mentioning in the volks dolpa thread that when my Lieselotte arrived I would be selling her outfit as I didn't like the style. Keep in mind I did not have a for sale in the market place - so I was not pimping my sale. Also there would be a two months wait for her to arrive.

I mention this as there are many in the soom threads that talk like this. I see it allot. It's casual refection of how you want to employ the doll buying.

** Mod Maybe you should add discussing splitting up a future doll set or parts - will also result in banning.

This seems to be self-evident but we will look closer at the wording. If a member sees an outrageous post in a Waiting Room thread please feel free to report it.

[Zagzagael]

I have a question for cross-posting pictures on the MP and the Gallery - I sometimes take a batch of pictures of my dolls in dresses that I will be selling in the MP. Sometimes I use the same pictures for both forums, but I edit them for different purposes, such as enhancing colors and whatnot for the Gallery... so I'm guessing that this is alright, since they are not EXACTLY the same?

No, this is against the rules. Editing the same image, or an image from the same photoshoot, is still going to be considered cross-posting. You may either post in the Marketplace thread or in a Gallery/Discussion thread - not both.

I'm also going to request clarification as to how it would work with meet-ups.
I know my group does our best to keep direct sales out of the thread, but we do have a lot of talk of stuff we plan to sell and talk of local group orders (usually accompanied then by random chime-ins of what we plan to buy). I realize the meet-up threads appear to be self-regulating, but I'd hate to see one of my local buddies (or myself) get ourselves a ban because we were talking like we normally do.

The moderators are currently discussing the best way to manage this rule in the Meet-up threads!

Er... but what if they're referring to an item you yourself made and happen to sell in the MP? What would you be allowed to say? "No Comment?"

Edit: And what about people commenting in the Waiting Rooms that they've purchased a doll, but are not planning to keep parts of it? Does that cross the line?

You can say "Thank you!" Anything else would be against the spirit of this rule - advertising outside of the Marketplace. Commenting in any thread that you are not going to keep a doll or a part of a doll or a costume is AGAINST the rules!

Seconding the request for clarification on meet-ups. Members of my local group often mention that they're bringing things to sell or trade at our monthly gathering, and I don't want to see anyone banned for our usual chitchat.

The moderators are currently discussing the best way to manage this rule in the Meet-up threads!

I guess I will have to be really careful what to say. I wouldn't even realise I was doing anything wrong in a third of the cases described. Oops.

Many members don't realize they are breaking this rule...but when they step back and take a closer look at how a comment can be perceived as selling/buying/trading....it can become pretty clear.

[Raouken]

Another question, recently in the Zaoll thread I have been asked if my commissions thread was still full, I answered this that it still was but I would pm the person in question(a personal friend)when there was space again, this was before these rules were announced. I hope this will not give me a ban..? In the future considering these rules, I will pm the person asking with the answer, but this was before these rules were posted.

I will make sure not to say anything about what I make(personal or not)from now on, to prevent such questions. I do quite a lot of things in the marketplace and I don't want to get banned..

*edit* ah I just remembered something else, I have a thread in the sewing forum with dresses in the same style as that I make to sell(IE not the same dresses, but my personal gowns in the same style), in this thread I also ask what people would like to see for sale and sometimes talk about what I might be making. I never post pictures of things that are for sale, neither have I posted a link to my actual selling thread in this thread. They are only my personal works. Again, this thread was posted months before these rules and I haven't updated it in a while. Still, keeping these new rules in mind, should I ask for this thread to be deleted?

[Zagzagael]

Another question, recently in the Zaoll thread I have been asked if my commissions thread was still full, I answered this that it still was but I would pm the person in question(a personal friend)when there was space again, this was before these rules were announced. I hope this will not give me a ban..? In the future considering these rules, I will pm the person asking with the answer, but this was before these rules were posted.

I will make sure not to say anything about what I make(personal or not)from now on, to prevent such questions. I do quite a lot of things in the marketplace and I don't want to get banned..

Thank you for making changes in the way you post - it's appreciated! We are NOT going to be retro-actively suspending members. The rule-breaking must be current. We really hope that members can moderate themselves now that they see the firm consequence.